Is just a shitdisturber!blackseacityman wrote:I'd like to know how many of you knuckleheads even voted. My guess is not many. So, stop bitching.
However, if you all are able to turn this into an interesting dialogue, cool.
Hands up for all who....
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little red rooster
- Posts: 16
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punk ass
However, if you all are able to turn this into an interesting dialogue, cool.
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Fenrisinho
That's an argument that the right winged parties in Norway use. I like the benfits you get from paying your income tax (could do with less taxes on other stuff though) but Norway uses more money per capita on government controled things (such as Police, healthcare, school etc) than any other nation does (Except defense, where we're 2nd to the US) and though we're not always best in our class, we're always very competitive in all areas. So to me, paying 37% in income tax wasn't a problem (when I had a job that is) You fall down, the system takes care of you. But that's my opinion anyways, ask another Norwegian and you might not get the same answer.Hank Snow wrote: I am sure places like Norway are great and all, Fenrisinho, but aren't your taxes outrageously high? I am pretty liberal on a lot of things, but taxes isn't one of them. I hate taxes and think we are way over taxed here in the US. I am all for a national sales tax or a flat tax
Peace, love
Frenchie Fenry
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Long Slow Fade
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- Location: Oxford, MS
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cathodebias
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:13 pm
Did you vote?
I voted. I bitch.
While I generally consider myself Independent (I fall on both sides of the political spectrum: Not for the death penalty, Not for abortion, Not for high taxes, Not for corporate tax loopholes, Pro enviroment, etc.) I totally disagree with Bush's policy of pre-emption (and more specifically Rumsfeild's and mainly his #1 underling: I can't remember his name right now...he coined the phrase shock and awe over 7 years ago ...I think his name is Warren Christopher) is rediculous. An analogy would be this: I'm 38 years old and because I think this 5th grader has a bad attitude towards me, that when he grows up big and strong and I'm old and gray he'll beat me up. So I'm going to take him out right now before he gets big and strong. How ludicrous! People are dying for this pre-emption bullshit policy. And the people that justify the war by asking that question: Would Iraq still be better off with Saddam? What are we going to take out every third world dictater to make a better world? And in the process murder millions of innocent people. l
While I generally consider myself Independent (I fall on both sides of the political spectrum: Not for the death penalty, Not for abortion, Not for high taxes, Not for corporate tax loopholes, Pro enviroment, etc.) I totally disagree with Bush's policy of pre-emption (and more specifically Rumsfeild's and mainly his #1 underling: I can't remember his name right now...he coined the phrase shock and awe over 7 years ago ...I think his name is Warren Christopher) is rediculous. An analogy would be this: I'm 38 years old and because I think this 5th grader has a bad attitude towards me, that when he grows up big and strong and I'm old and gray he'll beat me up. So I'm going to take him out right now before he gets big and strong. How ludicrous! People are dying for this pre-emption bullshit policy. And the people that justify the war by asking that question: Would Iraq still be better off with Saddam? What are we going to take out every third world dictater to make a better world? And in the process murder millions of innocent people. l
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hollywood44
- Posts: 584
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
- Location: Chicago
Couple of things, then I'm out:
1) We can have more than 2 parties and be fine. Clinton got well under 50% in 1992 (Perot, remember?) and his power and crediblity didn't suffer (well, at least not because of the election numbers...). Bush got under 50% in 2000, and he's hanging in there. Third parties are good for the system. They offer alternatives and can, indirectly, affect the major parties' agendas.
2) 100,000+ Iraqis are dead as a result of the current hostilities. Not saying we should or shouldn't be there. But however you come down on the issue, let's realize that Saddam was brutal, but provided a stable government with things like power and running water. Iraq was a pretty modern country in terms of infrastructure (obviously not in social liberties). As of now, we certainly haven't improved the country. That may get better (let's hope so).
Not a defense of Saddam! He's right where he should be - locked up. But from a geopolitical standpoint the region is more de-stabilized now than before we got there. Saddam was wicked, but ran a secular regime, and didn't have terrorists running around blowing shit up. Like women and westerners, the religious zealots were enemies of his.
With today's inauguration, let's all hope that this is the beginning of better days for US troops and for the citizenry of that part of the world. Red or blue, we can all get behind that.
1) We can have more than 2 parties and be fine. Clinton got well under 50% in 1992 (Perot, remember?) and his power and crediblity didn't suffer (well, at least not because of the election numbers...). Bush got under 50% in 2000, and he's hanging in there. Third parties are good for the system. They offer alternatives and can, indirectly, affect the major parties' agendas.
2) 100,000+ Iraqis are dead as a result of the current hostilities. Not saying we should or shouldn't be there. But however you come down on the issue, let's realize that Saddam was brutal, but provided a stable government with things like power and running water. Iraq was a pretty modern country in terms of infrastructure (obviously not in social liberties). As of now, we certainly haven't improved the country. That may get better (let's hope so).
Not a defense of Saddam! He's right where he should be - locked up. But from a geopolitical standpoint the region is more de-stabilized now than before we got there. Saddam was wicked, but ran a secular regime, and didn't have terrorists running around blowing shit up. Like women and westerners, the religious zealots were enemies of his.
With today's inauguration, let's all hope that this is the beginning of better days for US troops and for the citizenry of that part of the world. Red or blue, we can all get behind that.
I think our system and our country is the best on earth, yes even better than Norway, but it could be better. Duh, I guess that was a silly thing to say.
People are getting blown up every single day in Iraq, how is it any different than before? This time it is done by us blowing things up and civilians inadvertantly getting killed or by insurgent rebels who want to make decisions on their own country, not live with decisions we make for them. Before it was a horrible nut case murdering dictator and his sons and friends killing people who disagreed with them. Either way a bunch of people in Iraq are getting blown up and killed every day.
"Where is your Drill Sergeant men?" "Blown Up sir"
I agree that the system isn't bad, it's the people. Our founding fathers really did know what they were doing and our constitution is an amazing wonderful thing, but there are always a bunch of assholes who just want to screw it up.
Tiny E, no matter how much we want to disagree, we always agree in some weird way.
Still hope to stop in out in CA some day and have a Beer with ya!!
People are getting blown up every single day in Iraq, how is it any different than before? This time it is done by us blowing things up and civilians inadvertantly getting killed or by insurgent rebels who want to make decisions on their own country, not live with decisions we make for them. Before it was a horrible nut case murdering dictator and his sons and friends killing people who disagreed with them. Either way a bunch of people in Iraq are getting blown up and killed every day.
"Where is your Drill Sergeant men?" "Blown Up sir"
I agree that the system isn't bad, it's the people. Our founding fathers really did know what they were doing and our constitution is an amazing wonderful thing, but there are always a bunch of assholes who just want to screw it up.
Tiny E, no matter how much we want to disagree, we always agree in some weird way.
Still hope to stop in out in CA some day and have a Beer with ya!!
So fellow democrats, lefties, liberals, blues, socially minded folks,(whatever you like to call yourselves), who do you think will run for pres. in '08? Do you think Mrs. Clinton or Howard Dean? Any other contenders?
I sure hope Dubyuh's brothuh in Floriduh's who's govenuh doesn't run. When I saw that he went to see the Tsunami damage, I told my husband that I bet their trying to start his campaigning now. Last summer when I went to the Rock for Democracy show in Minneapolis, some rock musician said "at least Dubyuh doesn't have any sons!" But he's got a stinkin' brothuh!!
I sure hope Dubyuh's brothuh in Floriduh's who's govenuh doesn't run. When I saw that he went to see the Tsunami damage, I told my husband that I bet their trying to start his campaigning now. Last summer when I went to the Rock for Democracy show in Minneapolis, some rock musician said "at least Dubyuh doesn't have any sons!" But he's got a stinkin' brothuh!!
You're right. Saddam was a better leader for Iraq. He was just an innocent victim of America's (and especially Bush's) empirical schema. Why should we care about anyone but ourselves?. Besides, those towel-heads aren't smart enough to build a democracy.Hank Snow wrote:Good post Lawrence Fan!!
Our two party system is a bad thing. It was sad what our choices boiled down to.
I voted in Nov, for Kerry, no matter how badly Tiny Elvis tried to convince me other wise!!
I am sure places like Norway are great and all, Fenrisinho, but aren't your taxes outrageously high? I am pretty liberal on a lot of things, but taxes isn't one of them. I hate taxes and think we are way over taxed here in the US. I am all for a national sales tax or a flat tax.
More than all of Bush's right wing nutty stuff, Iraq is what got me to vote against him. Everything about us being there is absolutely WRONG. almost 1400 of our guys and gals are dead now, thousands injured, who knows how many innocent civilians are dead, plus we basically caused a civil war to start that I really doubt will be over in a LONG time.
Bush was wrong about this one, and I think his legacy will show that.
What was the question???
You guys kill me...It has to be two-party system... when you add a third, fourth, etc party you have elected leaders that a clear majority may not have voted for. Should we really have a President that gets say 28% of the vote?
Our system is fine. It's the fools on both sides of the aisle who are out for noone but themselves and power that are a problem.
E
Good post Lawrence Fan!!
Our two party system is a bad thing. It was sad what our choices boiled down to.
I voted in Nov, for Kerry, no matter how badly Tiny Elvis tried to convince me other wise!!
I am sure places like Norway are great and all, Fenrisinho, but aren't your taxes outrageously high? I am pretty liberal on a lot of things, but taxes isn't one of them. I hate taxes and think we are way over taxed here in the US. I am all for a national sales tax or a flat tax.
More than all of Bush's right wing nutty stuff, Iraq is what got me to vote against him. Everything about us being there is absolutely WRONG. almost 1400 of our guys and gals are dead now, thousands injured, who knows how many innocent civilians are dead, plus we basically caused a civil war to start that I really doubt will be over in a LONG time.
Bush was wrong about this one, and I think his legacy will show that.
What was the question???
Our two party system is a bad thing. It was sad what our choices boiled down to.
I voted in Nov, for Kerry, no matter how badly Tiny Elvis tried to convince me other wise!!
I am sure places like Norway are great and all, Fenrisinho, but aren't your taxes outrageously high? I am pretty liberal on a lot of things, but taxes isn't one of them. I hate taxes and think we are way over taxed here in the US. I am all for a national sales tax or a flat tax.
More than all of Bush's right wing nutty stuff, Iraq is what got me to vote against him. Everything about us being there is absolutely WRONG. almost 1400 of our guys and gals are dead now, thousands injured, who knows how many innocent civilians are dead, plus we basically caused a civil war to start that I really doubt will be over in a LONG time.
Bush was wrong about this one, and I think his legacy will show that.
What was the question???
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saratoga jay
- Posts: 6665
- Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 6:02 pm
- Location: South Jersey/Philly
Lawrence Fan wrote:I voted, for what it was worth.
What saddens me most is the persisting red/blue mentality among many of the "blue state people". Many of these people, though not all of course, would go even further and suggest that there's something "wrong" with the "red" states, or that people in the "red" states are somehow not as informed, intelligent or enlightened as the "blue" people. The problems that exist in this country go much deeper than geography. I don't care what educational patterns they can cite, or what demographic data they can point to to support their claim, it's just not that simple. I live smack dab in the middle of what is derisively called "Jesusland", and it insults me that there are those who wish to censor me because of geography. This is yet another example of the continued polarization of this country, and until people *on both sides* get past that, things will never get better. I don't have any answers, I just live my life as best I can, pay my bills (well, most of them anyway), and in what little free time I do have I try to be as considerate and helpful to people as possible. If I'm an asshole to you, well maybe I'm having a bad day. If I call you an idiot, it's probably because you act like one and not because of who you voted for.
-gk-
damn good post, LF!
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Lawrence Fan
- Posts: 6677
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:36 pm
- Location: The corner of Awesome and What The Hell?!?!
I voted, for what it was worth.
What saddens me most is the persisting red/blue mentality among many of the "blue state people". Many of these people, though not all of course, would go even further and suggest that there's something "wrong" with the "red" states, or that people in the "red" states are somehow not as informed, intelligent or enlightened as the "blue" people. The problems that exist in this country go much deeper than geography. I don't care what educational patterns they can cite, or what demographic data they can point to to support their claim, it's just not that simple. I live smack dab in the middle of what is derisively called "Jesusland", and it insults me that there are those who wish to censor me because of geography. This is yet another example of the continued polarization of this country, and until people *on both sides* get past that, things will never get better. I don't have any answers, I just live my life as best I can, pay my bills (well, most of them anyway), and in what little free time I do have I try to be as considerate and helpful to people as possible. If I'm an asshole to you, well maybe I'm having a bad day. If I call you an idiot, it's probably because you act like one and not because of who you voted for.
-gk-
What saddens me most is the persisting red/blue mentality among many of the "blue state people". Many of these people, though not all of course, would go even further and suggest that there's something "wrong" with the "red" states, or that people in the "red" states are somehow not as informed, intelligent or enlightened as the "blue" people. The problems that exist in this country go much deeper than geography. I don't care what educational patterns they can cite, or what demographic data they can point to to support their claim, it's just not that simple. I live smack dab in the middle of what is derisively called "Jesusland", and it insults me that there are those who wish to censor me because of geography. This is yet another example of the continued polarization of this country, and until people *on both sides* get past that, things will never get better. I don't have any answers, I just live my life as best I can, pay my bills (well, most of them anyway), and in what little free time I do have I try to be as considerate and helpful to people as possible. If I'm an asshole to you, well maybe I'm having a bad day. If I call you an idiot, it's probably because you act like one and not because of who you voted for.
-gk-
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Fenrisinho
That was my favourite memory of College, nothing like those 23 inchersjeffra wrote:Don't get me wrong I love The Wall, but to I don't want pay $600 to watch it on a 1974 23-inch Samsung sitting in an antiseptic classroom, while my prof. strokes his beard, tugs his hemp necklace and thinks about how he is changing the world with his bullshit stoner politics.
My teachers weren't stoned....all the time atleast.Peace, love
Frenchie Fenry
Don't get me wrong I love The Wall, but to I don't want pay $600 to watch it on a 1974 23-inch Samsung sitting in an antiseptic classroom, while my prof. strokes his beard, tugs his hemp necklace and thinks about how he is changing the world with his bullshit stoner politics.
I would be happy to cart my ass down to Blockbuster and rent it for $3.00
I would be happy to cart my ass down to Blockbuster and rent it for $3.00