Further proof that W is a piece of shit

[elliegurl]

t>f i caught your sarcasim and yeah i am a "good girl" how patronizing is that, sure sounds like you are being civil.
i see you kinda glossed over my comments once again and stated the republican rheteric once again. god you are so predictable. did you even read what i wrote?
my point continues to be that people should argue politics in a civil way, both sides.
i also don't recall bush winning by such a large margin, in either election so i don't see the need to get cocky. i also know that politics run in cycles if you have bothered to check history. it will be another partys turn to fix all the messes bush leaves behind.
in the mean time its okay for people to have differing opinions it doesn't make them unamerican. for the record i don't think liberal is a dirty word...and were does it say that indepenedent voters cannot have liberal views? your constant attack and tired views just don't play anymore. people are starting to catch on to republican failings no matter how they try to spin things.
just for the record i was tempted to call you boy but i have more respect for you then that, even after the way you talked to me.
ellie

[ShuckOwens]

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[Trellis]

Trellis, I'm not being smarmy about getting along... I actually mean it. I am also not preaching "levelling opinions". I'm talking about our ability to discuss differences of opinion. Is it not better than solving problems "Tutsis and Hutu style"? Speaking of Rwanda <the single biggest humanitarian crisis of the last 50 years>, I don't remember Democrats <Clinton administration> "not sucking big-time" on that front. And then there's Somalia. I'm not going to defend this administration's initial lacking response to the storm aftermath. I would argue that there is plenty of blame to be spread around on this one... dating back many years.

-Shuck Owens

Shuck, I know you mean it. I was trying to say this is ok. You asked if you were being too "sappy" before; I was gesturing to that with "smarmy." So, relax and take a compliment!
You were, however, leveling opinions, not just saying that we should be able to debate in a civil manner. Actually, you make the same move, but on an opposite scale, in your latest point - instead of saying that differences are "just differences," you now say that debate on this board can metaphorically be compared to genocide or something. You continue to make this mistake, I think, because you want to artificially reduce the importance of people's political opinions. Probably this is because you are a) a nice guy and b) a republican.
Differences of opinion do matter, and an opinion says a lot about the person who holds it. In fact, after actions, your opinions are the things that say the most about you as an ethical person. So they do make a difference. We should be able to debate civilly, yes, but we shouldn't pretend that we can be separated from our opinions. If you have hateful opinions, you are a hateful person. If you have generous ones, you are a generous person. If you have Fenricious opinions, you are probably Fenry.

[Tweedy > Farrar]

Ok, T-Bone:

What is your suggestion?. How do we make things right? How do we fix it?

This outta be good.

Somehow I believe that it will involve raising taxes on anyone making over $5K a year (Bucky will be right on the cutt-off if you include tips). While we really soak it to the "rich", ie,..anyone who actually earns a living that is above the poverty line, we redistribute that money to others. But alas, there aren't enough rich folks to finance your utopian dream. Once you've soaked the wealthy, however, it makes it easier to then go to the middle class - where the real money is - and ask them for their "fair share".

We've all seen how beautiifull the wellfare state worked in NOLA, right?

You guys are like a bunch of 4 year olds, who keep putting thier hand on the stove, but never learning that it will burn you. How many times must socialism fail before you figure it out? Name one instance where it has worked. I'll go down and get a Carmel Machiatto from the Starbucks that Bucky works at while you come up with some excuse while it has failed. Every time it is tried.

[t-bone]

I don't think it's about republican, democrat, or independent. I believe both parties are whores for big business. Case(s) in point-

Clinton pushes through NAFTA- Bush decides that the Mexicans making $1.50 an hour are greedy bastards: Thus CAFTA is shoved up our ass. If those Central Americans get money-hungry we should send the few jobs we have left further south. Yes, I'm talking about
AFTA. The Antarctica Free Trade Agreement . It's time we put those lazy penguins to work assembling shitty cell phones. We must have more cell phones!!!!!

Seriously, there are few decisions politicians make that don't benefit corporations. A few:

• United Airlines deciding they don't need to pay the pensions they promised to their retirees. Good call, United. Screw those old lazy bastards. There are plenty of jobs at Wal-Mart for go- getters.

• Giving Halliburton a no-bid contract in Iraq, then watching them lie, cheat and steel so much it would make a congressman blush

• Allowing oil companies to gouge Americans daily at the gas pump.

I don't think the business world is evil. I do think, however, our political leaders care very little about average Americans and very much about how to feed their pockets.

While we are yelling, name-calling, and hating each other listen for the faint sound of laughter from your leaders and the cha- ching of business as usual.

Say it with me! U$A!, U$A!, U$A

[japhyryder]

BURNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[trousersnakeandlarry]

[Tweedy > Farrar]

Ellie,

You seem like a good girl. I'm not completely buying it when you say you are an independant, but maybe you are. Or, maybe you're a liberal who is ashamed to admit it (I would understand). Or maybe you realy are an (I)? Whatever the case, you have nothing to prove to me.

However, if you were to be intellectually honest with yourself, you would know that the "hate" isn't coming from me. Look at the title of the original post in this thread. Nevermind that the facts are ignored, or in this case, completely made up. Look at the posts in response to TinyE. There is ZERO tolerance here for opinions that are anywhere near the right - anywhere near where the political center of this country is. You do know that the majority of the people have voted for George W twice, right? You do know that the people have spoken and there are Republican majorities in both the Senate and the House, not to mention the state legislatures throughout the country (this is where the conspiracy left will chime in about stealing elections, LOL)?

Calling people Nazi's and claiming they are full of "venom" and "hate", like some do (including you) is only done to stifle debate. But stilfing debate is the only way liberals can win. Look, I like to stir things up occasionally,and I love to make fun of liberals, but for every post I do for fun to get under people's skin, there is also a post that is meant for discussion. See the SCOTUS post above re: Janice Rogers Brown. But when you exspose the left for who they are, that discussion becomes "hate".

People like Bucky are the definition of flame-throwers and name callers. That's all that they can do. In the arena of ideas they are intellectually bankrupt. But their posts would never be consided "hate" or "venom" because they are on your side (as an independant?).

I read the posts here, as I am a fan of Jay's music, and have been since 1991. I don't get involved in musical threads, and if I do, it's about the music, not politics. But I will not sit idle while people of the liberal persuassion post lies and falsehoods. That isn't hate, btw.

[ShuckOwens]

...

[saratoga jay]

Well Ellie... I'm a Republican, but I'd never attack or insult you. You seem like a great person with a killer taste in music to boot.
We all have, and are entitled to our own opinions on things, but I don't think makes me or you, or anyone smarter or dumber than anyone. Just different people with differing opinions.

-Shuck Owens

My goodness. Will he be asking Fenry to be part of his cabinet next?

yeah right, he might ask Fenry to build his next cabinet.

[Trellis]

Well Ellie... I'm a Republican, but I'd never attack or insult you. You seem like a great person with a killer taste in music to boot.
We all have, and are entitled to our own opinions on things, but I don't think makes me or you, or anyone smarter or dumber than anyone. Just different people with differing opinions.

-Shuck Owens

This is really nice, and I actually like most of the smarmy stuff about everybody getting along, and I don't think of you as one of our resident troll republicans, but opinions do make a difference. I thought this kind of extreme relativism was not very Republican? But I guess in this instance leveling all opinion does serve the interests of republican politics, which have proven to suck big time in this crisis, even by their own admission.
BTW, even Bush has conceded that he did a poor job on this... his government did draw back funds, for the last three years, on stuff that could have prevented some of this... and he has now accepted help from Canada (oil, and, gasp, medical help!) and even from the dreaded UN!!! My goodness. Will he be asking Fenry to be part of his cabinet next?

[ShuckOwens]

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[elliegurl]

an independent is not exactly what i would call you f>t., independents think for themselves and often listen to others points of view and make compromises. they are not quick to hate or use aggression and hatred to put down those who don't agree with them. they also don't have to all be the same.

i wonder sometimes if you ever think for yourself or just go along with what all the religious right and republican party serve up to you. i actually think i know the answer to that, and yes i do think for myself. i am an independent.

do you ever listen to anybody else's point of view? or even attempt to learn something on your own? or just throw labels and hate at people?

a girl with an opinion, one who thinks on her own, and is not afraid to ask questions or speak up i must be very scary to you because i don't know my place. what would george do, besides take a vacation?

so dig up your best insults or stupid pics...yes its time to go into attack mode cuz thats what all good republicans do when others don't agree with them. you really are quite funny sad but funny and so predictable.
yours truely a feminist, liberal, hippie, gay loving, veggie, tree hugging american. yea i even love republicans just cuz they don't know any better!

ellie

[Tweedy > Farrar]

I'm an (I)ndepedant, too.

I vote for the person who is least likely to be a socialist, tree-hugging, rainbow-sticker displaying, abortion-loving, income-confiscating, America-hating, holier than thou, compassion fascist, hippie relic from the '60's.

Therefore, I don't vote for the Dims.

PS - I can't wait for W to nominate Janice Rogers Brown for the SCOTUS and watch all these rich, white, silver-spoon, male liberal politicians that all you lefties adore (Kerry, Kennedy) tell the American people that this African American woman isn't qualified to serve on the bench because she is an extremist. Of course, anyone to the right of Cindy Sheehan is an extremist to your joke of a party. Let's see if the NAACP or NOW clan supports the diversity she would bring to the court.

It will once again show the hypocrisy of the left and their outright laughable concept of "diversity".

[Long Slow Fade]

The point of this thread is to bitch and moan about the president in a forum that could not care less about your opinions.

"BOO HOO I HATE THE PRESIDENT HUUURRRR"

I'm no republican myself but the stupidity, whining, and fuckery this board seems to attract these days is staggering.