Beware of the Wilco book (Jay, please don't look back)

Bigb · Post by **Bigb** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:50 pm

dougm wrote:I don't think I have posted one solitary thing on this board since I have been following it, but I do have to chime in on this topic. I will wholeheartedly agree with bentonbourbon that Tweedy's songwriting/musicianship doesn't hold a candle to that of Mr. Farrar. To this day when I listen to No Depression, I laugh at the dichotomy of how amazing tunes like Life Worth Livin or Whiskey Bottle are compared to songs like Screen Door ar any other Tweedy song for that matter. I have heard, and it may be common knowledge amongst you folks that the only reason Tweedy started singing in UT was b/c Jay refused to sing the songs that Tweedy wrote. Melodically, rhythmically, and lyrically Tweedy is Jay's inferior. In my opinion all that needs to be said or heard is Trace as compared to AM. Absolute Genius as compared to Absolutely not genius. Keep in mind, this is just an opinion.

That certainly is ONE opinion. Comparing AM to Trace doesn't make Jay superior to Jeff. I won't call Jeff superior to Jay as it is a futile argument. Jeff is inferior to nobody making music today though. He is a singer songwriter in the purest sense of the word. Jay Bennett and other collaborators may have brought something to the table but Jeff's songs at the core are equal to anyone's.

bentonbourbon · Post by **bentonbourbon** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:48 am

When in doubt ... a little water out of the kitchen sink works well, though it does melt some of the ice

dougm · Post by **dougm** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:21 am

bentonbourbon,
I couldn't agree more with everything you said in your last post. And to boot, you phrased it most eloquently and succinctly. I would however put some nice rum in with my Sam's coke instead of the Schnucks. Oh yeah, and wedge of lime!

bentonbourbon · Post by **bentonbourbon** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:46 am

I raise my glass of Schnucks bourbon and Sam's coke to ya dougm
That being said
You can't really compare Trace to A.M.
I do feel YHF is as good as Wilco can get (i.e. with the help of Jay Bennett)
A.M was a rushed effort and Trace is a masterpiece
That being said ... I really do love Tweedy and I don't want to be labled as a Tweedy basher
It just drives me freakin' (I didn't want to use the F-word) crazy how the genius lable gets bestowed upon Tweedy and Jay is sometimes thought of as a has been.

dougm · Post by **dougm** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:00 am

I don't think I have posted one solitary thing on this board since I have been following it, but I do have to chime in on this topic. I will wholeheartedly agree with bentonbourbon that Tweedy's songwriting/musicianship doesn't hold a candle to that of Mr. Farrar. To this day when I listen to No Depression, I laugh at the dichotomy of how amazing tunes like Life Worth Livin or Whiskey Bottle are compared to songs like Screen Door ar any other Tweedy song for that matter. I have heard, and it may be common knowledge amongst you folks that the only reason Tweedy started singing in UT was b/c Jay refused to sing the songs that Tweedy wrote. Melodically, rhythmically, and lyrically Tweedy is Jay's inferior. In my opinion all that needs to be said or heard is Trace as compared to AM. Absolute Genius as compared to Absolutely not genius. Keep in mind, this is just an opinion.

bentonbourbon · Post by **bentonbourbon** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:39 am

Tweedy surpassing Jay?
I don't think so
Since Tupelo Jay has been doing everything (writing/arranging) all on his own while as Tweedy has had another Jay, Jay Bennett, to fall back on.. It's pretty safe to say, and its even in Kot's book, without Jay Bennett Summerteeth and Yankee Hotel Foxtrot wouldn't be what they are today.
Without Jay Bennett, Wilco isn't what it used to be.
Case in point: A Ghost Is Born
Tweedy may have surpassed Jay as far as magazine articles or covers but that's about it
In closing
There would be no Jeff Tweedy were it not for Jay Farrar.
People seem to forget that.
Jay MADE Jeff

grainpulp · Post by **grainpulp** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:11 pm

I found through the course of the book that Jeff turns into Jay in a way. Once he reaches the point artistically Jay was at the end of Tupelo.
The banishing of Coomer is eerily reminiscent of EXACTLY how Jay ended Tupelo.
Although the book doesn't really connect those dots.
Anyway, regardless, I'm really enjoying it.

mcarlton · Post by **mcarlton** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:46 pm

They mentioned that Tony was told by all to jump on the Jay wagon but he choose Jeff instead. Not much of Jay's perspective just a comment from Henneman I think that Jay didnt either understand Jeff anymore or "what was up with Jeff?" not sure exactly.

farmerslung · Post by **farmerslung** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:44 pm

i read an article where jay mentioned that he felt a little ganged up on by jeff and their manager tony margherita. he felt it became a 2 against 1 situation and that contributed to the demise of tupelo. i haven't read this book but do they mention this point ? i've never seen anyone else talk about this aspect of the break-up?
i've heard a few scary things about tony, his ego and his tactics. i wonder what role he played in the grand scheme?

Down Watson · Post by **Down Watson** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:07 pm

I too have just read the book and had several different emotions evoked. I loved the coverage of the early days of UT and was curious of the demise. Yes, Jay came out looking like the "bad guy". Specifically, the "I don't have a problem with anybody but him (pointing to Tweedy)" exchange. It seems like Tweedy was thrilled to see UT get more and more successful and enjoyed all the benefits which came along with that success. These "trappings" seemed to really, really turn Farrar off. Their reactions seem cosistent with their roles in the band. Jay, with his touched by God talent and Tweedy with his 'little bro eagerness'. I saw UT in '93 and Tweedy loved the spotlight Farrar's music brought him... but he was growing each day as a song writer...

Frankly, their "breakup" allowed Tweedy to become the great (and haunted?) artist he is today...in my opinion surpassing Farrar's work. The reason why Farrar can't escape Tweedy is because he's the reason why Jeff's become so great...

kmz · Post by **kmz** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:44 pm

well said, murphy.

bentonbourbon · Post by **bentonbourbon** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:26 pm

Good post Murph!!!

Hank Snow · Post by **Hank Snow** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:29 pm

It seems like he's running away from his fans more than any specific "problem" in his life--trying to outsmart them and keep from being labeled as anything.

I agree with that, as much as i love Wilco's music, sometimes I honestly get the impression that JT is sometimes just trying too hard to be different.

I agree too with your sentiment of NOT wanting to know the details. I love the music, I love how the music makes me feel and the joy it brings my ears. THings in the artists personal life has no bearing on that at all.

What is next, Wilco on a VH1 Reality show?

Murphy · Post by **Murphy** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:20 pm

Interesting points. I didn't mind the historical aspects of the book, actually. I didn't even think the book made Jay look too bad. I certainly did not develop a negative perception of Jay from how he dealt with the UT breakup. I really couldn't care less about how diplomatic he was (or is) in his professional or personal relationships. More than anything, I got the impression from the book that Jeff was (and perhaps is) insecure and imbalanced (I feel I know him TOO well now and it is getting in the way of my efforts to listen to his music for what it is).

I think Jay probably did the right thing at the right time by getting out of a working relationship with Jeff. I'm no one to question any of that stuff. Even if the book is accurate in how it portrayed events, I figure Jay was young and he did what pretty much anyone would have done under the circumstances. I guess my post was more of a plea to Jay than anything else. I have seen many parallels in their careers since the demise of UT, but I hope that Jay doesn't have any desire to get his side of the story out there now that "Learning to Die" has been published and is being discussed so widely.

I simply hope Jay stays the course as far as keeping the details of his life out of the spotlight. I wouldn't mind reading some of Jay's writings and learning more about his music if he wanted to publish something like that, but Jesus Christ, I don't have any need to know him on a more intimate level just for the sake of curiosity. Any performer is a spectacle in a sense, but I don't want to gawk at him like he's some circus act. I especially don't want to go to one of his live shows and look up there at the stage and feel sorry for the guy (which I would probably do if I saw Jeff right now, knowing what I know). Hell, reading "Learning to Die" sort of makes me feel like I am part of the problem by being a consumer of Jeff's music. It seems like he's running away from his fans more than any specific "problem" in his life--trying to outsmart them and keep from being labeled as anything.

Jay knows what he's doing and he can handle himself without our help, but I want to make it clear that I, for one, am not looking for explanations for anything. I'll be happy to take what I can get from his music and wonder about the rest.

Anyone agree?

Hank Snow · Post by **Hank Snow** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:50 am

I really like the stuff about how Tupelo started and grew. I really enjoyed reading about the Mermaid sessions and other MUSIC related stuff, but as Murphy mentioned I could do without the constant comparison of the music to other music, as well as the constant reports of Tweedy's chemical abuse, mental state, etc. I just like to know about the music.

One thing is for sure in the post Tupelo days, Tweedy and his "people" are getting better and better at using the media, capturing the spotlight, getting on magazine covers, having a bio published in conjuction with an album release, etc. His publicist must really be working over time, and it seems to be paying off as far as popularity and record sales goes.